Julie Schurr has been a member of the LGBTQ2S+ community for more than 25 years. She has served the queer community in a number of ways, including educator, entertainer and advocate.
An expat American living in Spain, Julie seeks to continue uplifting her chosen family through mindset and growth coaching, with a focus on grief. Along with her certification in coaching, she is accredited in cognitive behavioral therapy and rational emotive behavioral therapy. She also holds a master’s in linguistics.
The queer community is drastically underserved in so many ways. Its members face experiences that those who identify as nonqueer will never understand. Those experiences — often coupled with profound loss — can bring stress, grief and lack of focus.
Julie wants to help her community overcome those feelings and remind her family members that they have the strength to do so.
I reached out to Julie because I have so many friends in the queer community, friends who have endured loss … friends who have endured the loss of pets.
And I know from my own perspective how isolating grief and loss can be but I wanted us to better understand the loneliness and isolation that our queer brothers and sisters experience when they say goodbye to their best fur friend.
Have a listen.
What to listen for
6:36 How Julie fought for LGBTQ2S+ students as a teacher
11:48 The microaggressions and discrimination Julie faces daily
24:03 When Julie met Avery, the love she deserves
34:07 How the love of pets can fill the void of loss
47:10 How health care practitioners and allies can do better
Where to find Julie
Coach Julie Schurr
LinkedIn
Instagram
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Angela
Welcome to One Last Network and The Art of Finding the Love We Deserve.
Julie Schurr has been a member of the LGBTQ2S+ community for more than 25 years. She has served the queer community in a number of ways, including educator, entertainer and advocate.
An expat American living in Spain, Julie seeks to continue uplifting her chosen family through mindset and growth coaching, with a focus on grief. Along with her certification in coaching, she is accredited in cognitive behavioral therapy and rational emotive behavioral therapy. She also holds a master’s in linguistics.
The queer community is drastically underserved in so many ways. Its members face experiences that those who identify as nonqueer will never understand. Those experiences — often coupled with profound loss — can bring stress, grief and lack of focus.
Julie wants to help her community overcome those feelings and remind her family members that they have the strength to do so.
I reached out to Julie because I have so many friends in the queer community, friends who have endured loss … friends who have endured the loss of pets.
And I know from my own perspective how isolating grief and loss can be but I wanted us to better understand the loneliness and isolation that our queer brothers and sisters experience when they say goodbye to their best fur friend.
Have a listen.
Good morning, Julie, how are you today?
Julie
I’m doing great. How are you?
Angela
Well, wait a second. It’s good evening for you because you’re in Spain?
Julie
I am. It is evening. Yeah.
Angela
What an incredible place Spain must be. I’ve not been off the continent of North America. So I’m very jealous.
Julie
You should visit, it’s very nice. I would highly suggest a place with a beach. Maybe not Madrid, Madrid is beautiful. So you know, there are pros.
Angela
It’s the history that just has me, so enthralled with it all.
Julie
Yeah, it is, you know, coming from the U.S., it is a shock. You know, I mean, you know, that places older exist, but then you see, see that it’s so common, you know, I’m even just driving to the like, there’s a little city about 20 miles away. And on the way there, you’re passing castles, like remnants of castles that, you know, predate my entire, the entire U.S., you know, and it’s there, just sits there, you know, so it’s kind of it’s, it’s weird. It’s strange, it’s, it’s beautiful. But it’s a shock, like, it’s hard to get used to.
Angela
Right, like this building is 1,500 years old.
Julie
Right?
Angela
You can’t even conceptualize that. But there it is. So you were a teacher here in the U.S., you are now a grief coach for the queer community. Tell us about that journey?
Julie
Well, I’m actually a growth coach, and I changed the wording a little bit, because people were actually not understanding what I meant by grief. And we can go into that later. But I tend to, with my clients, I work with kind of all aspects of what they’re going through. So growth coach, in the sense of I help people who are stuck, we’re trying to maybe achieve something, find a better balance in their lives, but maybe they’re kind of crippled by like, just negative self talk or executive dysfunction. People who have some ADHD, you know, issues going on, I have ADHD myself, so I help people find that, but also, I consider the losses that our community carry with us, which, unfortunately, they’ve been normalized. So if you deal with loss, it, it manifests in, in very powerful ways and very unhealthy ways in the future.
You know, if you don’t ever address it, like if you lose your family, and you’re told, Well, this is a normal part of coming out, you know, you just carry that loss along with you, and you never talk about it, you never go to therapy, a lot of people can’t afford therapy. for it. I mean, that can affect you later. That’s huge loss. So I look at grief. As you know, anyone who has gone through a loss, and I don’t really put a weight on those losses, you know, anything significant enough to impact your life is a loss, you know, especially for the queer community, the LGBTQ community — loss of family, loss of freedom of jobs, loss of human rights, you know, loss of safety, just going to the store, these things pile up, and they weigh on someone.
So that’s kind of a long version of how I integrate that into helping people move forward. But I actually transitioned from in the U.S. … in the US, I taught for 16 years, I taught in both public schools and at the high school, K through 12. And then my last few years were university level, I taught English linguistics and composition. And I liked the work. I continued it when I moved to Spain, but it always felt that something was missing. And what I realized was, you know, all of those years I was hanging on for the students who would find me and kind of cling to me as a safe haven. And usually those were kids who were, they were marginalized in some way. Most of the time, they were members of the queer community, and they would kind of gravitate to me.
I never made it a conversation about how I identify because you know, I’m an adult, we’re learning about composition, this is not a subject we need to discuss. But I also would never hide it, you know, it was not something to be ashamed of. But I ended up fighting for those kids in the schools, fighting the administration’s a lot for, you know, maybe we could have a little GSA for the, you know, maybe we could set something up to better support these students, could we ask this person to stop dead-naming my student, you know, etc. Just very small things.
And what I found consistently, unfortunately, was that administrations would smile and nod and do absolutely nothing, which made me furious. And I was hanging on to those students every year. And I was fighting for them. And the problem was that it was a battle that was impossible to fight. At least for me, I didn’t have the power, I didn’t have the clout, I didn’t have the voice loud enough, that they would listen. And so it was just, it was crushing me watching that happen. So I tried to figure out how, without going back to school for, you know, 10 years, I could help the LGBTQ community. Other than being an advocate, which, you know, many of us are in the ways we can be, but I, I wanted to give in some way, because that fills my soul. And I stumbled across coaching, which, to me sounded a little goofy, you know, because coaches got kind of a bad reputation for a while there. But, you know, I found a school that actually has a certification process, we have to take an ethics, you know, courses on ethics. It’s essentially aligned with HIPAA. I opted for a little pricier program, because once I had that certification, I am actually reportable. So if I do something that is outside the ethical guidelines, I can be reported. And I did that because I would, especially working with the queer community, being a part of the community and working for them. And with them, I want to set a baseline of you know, the trust, I am safe, and if you know, if I happen to not be in some way, I can be shut down completely. So I went with that.
And I’m, I’m new-ish in this, I’ve only been, I was certified in just the last week of January, I’ve kind of been putting word out. I have a few clients now. And I’ve had a few clients that I’ve, you know, worked with before from February to May. But yeah, I’m still I’m still growing. And you know, as most of us should do, I’m continuously trying to learn and find better methods to use and better techniques for my clients. And right now I use a lot, it’s individualized, but I use a lot of CBT and REBT therapy techniques. I’m certified in both of those. So I can work with a client, if that’s what they need, we can integrate that into the process if they don’t need that.
Angela
So you mentioned some of the specific types of loss that the members of the queer community endure. Speaking as part of the cishet, dominant world, we may not conceive of the effect that might have … those specific losses might have been a member of the queer community, can you speak more to what that’s like to have those losses like family and, and jobs and stuff like that?
Julie
Sure. I can speak only because, you know, we’re not a monolith. But I will speak for myself and those friends that I do know, I know, you know, not every member of the community is in the same position. But I do know a lot of people who have gone through these things, and I myself had a very rough path of it. You know, the losses that I see that are most overwhelming and most common, unfortunately, would be the loss of family isolation from family. If, if that doesn’t exist, people are very lucky in that sense. And I do think they know that because it is pretty prevalent, prevalent enough where those who have their family around say, I’m lucky to have my family, which is not a statement you make in a community that mostly keeps their families.
The loss of friend groups, the sense of isolation, the loss of a feeling of community just being in a group of other human beings, just because of the prevailing thoughts about who and what this is, which are wildly incorrect for in most cases, the loss of a feeling of security I mean, imagine needing to go to Target and just grab a few things. I personally and I, I present in a way that is very difficult to hide who I am. I don’t do this for attention. I do this because this is who I am. This is how I feel good. I look very strange with long hair. Trust me and it is … my high school pictures are horrific. They … no one … I need to burn them, but I keep them around for jokes.
Angela
Come on now. It was the ’80s. Don’t they all look terrible?
Julie
Oh hey, now, I was not … mine was not the 80s. I’m not that old yet. N.
Angela
Okay, fine.
Julie
Late, Late. 90s. Thank you, but no, no, just me with hair. Um, honestly, I think my, my dog would look better with a wig on like, just much more attractive. So it, it looks, it’s awkward. It’s awkward. But anyway, um, the point is I don’t, I had to kind of mentally put on my armor before I would go to Target and, you know, that’s, that’s, that’s wild, you know, because, um, I was mentioning before, you know, when we’ve met, you know, it’s, it’s just every day, someone would say something. And maybe it’s just one word. But you know, when you’re shopping for, you know, I’m picking up apples or getting detergent, and someone has a slur. And they say it when they walk by, or they grab their child, and they pull them away from me really quickly, you know, that that stabs you in the heart.
You know, so I’d say that’s, that’s a sort of loss, because that is a safety and that should be afforded to all human beings just to exist. A lot of things, we lose job possibilities, because many of us, especially those of us, who don’t pass quite so easily, or have pronouns that are they/them or not the standard, more accepted she, her, he, him, we kind of have to think about what we are going to put on a resume, we may lose the dream job or have to abandon it, just because we know that company is inherently anti-gay, at the top of CEO level, which makes it unsafe for us.
There are a lot of losses. And you know, when you when you look at loss in, in the sense of the traditional sense, like losing a loved one. And you don’t deal with that loss, which my argument is most of the community hasn’t, because we’ve been told it is part of the coming out process, it’s to be expected. So we kind of accept that as something we have to endure to come out and then we move forward, and we never look back. But you know that as with any loss, it affects your brain, it affects the way it … so if you look at someone who has lost a loved one, and they go through, you know, the process of grief, there are, you know, the stages that are kind of not really aren’t really accepted anymore, because there’s a lot … it’s simplistic. But after about six months, you know, if there’s no progress forward, and you haven’t dealt with it, you’ve actually kind of carved a neural network into your head of seeking that which you cannot attain, which actually triggers dopamine receptors to give you dopamine for a negative action.
So the more you walk that path through the neural network, like that neural pathway, it’s like a path in a field, it gets deeper and deeper, it gets more ingrained and more ingrained. And you know, the same centers are activated with every kind of loss. And it’s the centers for pursuit of something, of the desire for something. And the problem is it’s something that we cannot have: a loved one back, or human rights or safety when we go to the store or our family back in our life. They’re gone. But something in us keeps trying to get them and what that does over time to someone — let’s talk traditionally someone who’s lost a family member — the symptoms of complex grief or prolonged grief, it our lack of focus trouble sleeping, brain fog, insomnia, anxiety, depression. There are physical symptoms as well, it just IBS, high blood pressure. You know, I mean, these are real symptoms that people suffer when they lose a loved one and, and aren’t able to move past that grief. And that’s not their fault that they can’t move past it. Because as I mentioned before therapy is expensive. And it’s also an undertaking that is painful, because you have to discuss and you have to work and you have to push through. And that is not always the easiest path, sometimes pushing it to the back of your mind is the easiest path. But in the long term that is the harshest path and does the most damage. So I’m equating those two as equals, honestly, because a loss is a loss, it does the same thing to the brain as any other loss. And over time, it has the same effects, the negative effects, the negative self-talk the viewing yourself as less than, that can all come when a person dies. And it can all also come with a large loss in your life, whether that be community, family, etc.
Angela
Walking the journey of being a member of the queer community sounds like it can be very lonely and isolating. Throw grief and loss which in and of themselves can be lonely and isolating into the mix, it all becomes rather compounded, doesn’t it?
Julie
It can but I will say one thing I did essentially lose my family. When I came out, I was raised in a very religious home, I have reconnected with a few members and that’s good. But I will never reconnect to the level that I wish I could because I know that the acceptance is not 100%. I don’t feel safe to talk about certain things because I don’t want to face what could possibly be said. That said, the queer community is my family. And it is for a lot of people who have gone through what I’ve gone through, I did have a point in my life where due to trying to be who I am, which is … I would like to just reiterate for anyone who doubts that not a choice, because I would not choose this path unless it was authentic, and worth it because it is not easy. And it is full of people who would like me to not exist anymore.
But also I know who I am, and I’m confident in who I am. And honestly, it really has very little to do with who is or is not in my bed. If there is no one there, I am still this person. So just clarifying that.
But you know, I did end up living in my car for a bit. And you know, the point there is the people who offered me a room to rent very cheaply, and first in exchange for just help around the house and help me get a job and get on my feet after that, in the aftermath of admitting to the world who I was, which was terrifying were members of the queer community. And from there, it just grew and there’s safety there. As with any group of human beings, there’s fighting and there’s disagreements and other you know, but the thing is, no matter where you go in the world, you have a common bond with a group of people. And there are different levels of understanding of the experiences, etc. You know, I mean, of course, because we’re all different, but it can be isolating, but at the same time it’s not because I could reach out to a group of people and say, hey, you know, a group of queer folks and online or otherwise or in person, say hey, you know, I’m, I’m a member of a community. I’m feeling very down. I’m feeling like I don’t belong. You know, could I get some uplifting something? And I’m gonna get uplifting words and encouragement from people I’ve never met before. And, you know, we do hold each other up.
So it can be isolating, in a sense, but if you realize the vast number of us out there, who are beautiful people, I’m not saying every one of us is because every one of any group is not beautiful. That is ridiculous. This is the world. You know, they’re very nice people in my community, and they’re very, there are some not nice people. But since the community has been vilified to the point that it has been, I do want to point out that, you know, our community has some power. You know, there are some decision makers, a lot of leaders, a lot of people in the healing fields, a lot of people who are very, very compassionate, caring, loving, would do anything for a person, just so that they didn’t feel the way that they feel every day. And after they’ve been through what they’ve been through, I feel like that is like a superpower. So sometimes isolating, but usually not because I know where I can reach out. I know, I know, I’ve got a built-in family, even if I don’t know him, and I’ve never met him. They’re my family. So that’s beautiful.
Angela
Let’s segue into the main theme of One Last Network and that’s of course, pets. Tell me about your dog.
Julie
Which one?
Angela
All of them!
Julie
Well, I’m guessing there’s gonna be waterworks, you know that so? Yeah. Well, um, my first dog, I was 23, and I decided I’m gonna get a dog. Why not? I’m gonna go to the shelter, get a dog. And, oh, that was 2003. That dog. And it was just love at first sight. It was just a little sad, sweet puppy. It was three months old. And so I adopted him. Well, I had to go back because they’d just brought him in. He had a little white heart on his tummy, like a little white hurt marking, I remember and I was like, he’s like a Care Bear. I’m gonna get him. I didn’t know what I was doing. And I was getting ready to leave on a road trip around the U.S. as 20 year olds do. Sometimes, you know, so I wasn’t worried about it. You know, so I, I went back to get them. They had switched the kennels. And they were trying to tell me another dog was him. And I was like, it’s not him. There’s no hard on his tummy. That’s him over there. I found him. I argued with them. I got my boy. We left.
So that was in yeah, March of … March of 2023. So yeah, he was, uh, he ended up being just my soul dog. He, he replaced … he made up for every bit of family I ever lost. He took care of me when I was upset. He traveled around. At one point, I was a musician. I used to drive everywhere. So it did get lonely then. But he was with me. He went with me everywhere. He was amazingly smart. And when he got older, he was a shepherd mix, a 55 pound dog. He, I developed anxiety. When I was driving, I started to get really bad, my anxiety started getting you know, pretty, pretty, pretty bad when I was older.
I noticed he started pawing me on the shoulder while we were driving. And I was like, I don’t know what this is. But I started to realize not 10 minutes later, I’d have an anxiety attack. That was horrible. He’d only do it right before and I realized this was pattern and it kept up for quite a while. So he ended up my doctor actually ended up you know, I’m sure people will get upset with this, but because he was alerting me to when I needed to take my medicine, because if I take my medicine before, before that, I will usually be okay. He was actually letting me know. So, you know, he served me in so many ways. And that was a … something my, you know, my doctors like, You got really lucky that he just is noticing this and has found a way to consistently, you know, alert you. You know, I didn’t take him into stores or anything because that’s not where my anxiety happened. So but he was he was my caretaker and I was his and he came to Spain with me. Towards the end of his life, he got osteoarthritis and I pulled him around in a cart through Spain, and he would just hang his little head out the cart and look at everybody, you know, I mean he was a big boy. So, you know, his big head out of the car. And I, he was with me for 17 years and three months. And his … yeah, they told me, will you take really good care of him, so he’ll probably make it to 13. So I was, I was the luckiest.
Angela
What’s his name?
Julie
Avery
Angela
He’s gone. He’s not a part of our physical world anymore, right? Now, what was it like for you to lose him?
Julie
Crushing. The hardest … the hardest moment in my life. Definitely. worse than losing my family. Because he was with me longer than they were. I left home at a little over 16. He was with me 17 years and three months. So he was a bigger part of my life than my family was. But he’s still with me. I know he’s still with me.
Angela
Absolutely. That is one of …
Julie
His sister showed up on accident. It his actual sister. But no, I’m in Spain. And my ex wife was like trying to distract me by going to look at puppies. And I was like, It’s too soon. It’s been six months. I don’t want another dog. This is terrible, you know, go away. And she convinced me to go look at a dog in a shelter. And I was like, fine, I’ll foster her. I got there. And there’s this long, lanky looking dog that is hiding from everybody and getting run over by all the dogs and just horrified of everything that moved. Every sound, everything. And, you know, they’re like, oh, she’s very anxious. You don’t want that one. And that was kind of the moment for me. I was like, Oh, I don’t want that one because she’s anxious. And I have horrible anxiety.
So I had to fight with a really bad shelter to actually get them to turn the papers over to me. They kind of threatened and did some weird things. But she’s my girl now. She’s been with me for three years. And about two months after I adopted her, I finally got all her papers. And the reason I say she’s his sister is because the first night she stayed with me the first night. She found his favorite toy, which I couldn’t find anywhere. And she laid it where he had been sleeping on the floor. And I found it when I woke up. Oh, I cried. I cried. I took a picture of it because I couldn’t believe it. I thought, oh, no, I’m losing … I’ve lost it now because I’m imagining this. And then when I got the paperwork that they mailed to me, because every dog here has a booklet to keep all their immunizations, their microchip numbers, everything. When I got it, I looked at the date of birth.
I’m gonna cry. So, Avery died on March 25 of 2020. Cora was born on March 25 2020.
Angela
Oh. Damn. I see you.
Julie
Yeah. Yeah. And there’s no way that shelter knew. My ex didn’t know the exact day because it was the pandemic, we weren’t living together. There’s no way she would remember that. That date. And that shelter had no idea. They knew I’d owned a dog before. They knew that I had owned that they knew I’d had a dog. That is all I knew. Because they asked do you have experience in dogs? And I said, Yes, I had a dog for a long time. That’s all I told them. And they said, Oh, she was born around April sometime. And I was like, okay, she was born in the spring. And when I got the paperwork, March 25, 2020, the exact day he left. So, you know, I I know, he’s I know, he’s around. I know he sent her, you know, she and she’s a very anxious dog and she’s on medication for her level of fear. So I don’t have to carry a 75 pound, very strong dog inside and outside anymore, which I did in the beginning. I was carrying her because she would freeze from the fear. She was abused horribly before I got her. She does not like people or other dog. But she is a good, good sweet girl and she loves me. So that’s really all that matters.
Angela
There’s a universality in the pet community. And we understand that our companion animals bring us comfort and joy and companionship. Do you feel that there’s a different level of that, when it comes to being a member of the queer community and having a pet?
Julie
You know, it, that’s a really hard thing to comment on, because I don’t want to take away from any community’s level of love for their pet. Because I know how much people who truly love their pet love their pets. So to say that it’s somehow like more, is kind of like a slap in the face to anyone in this pet community, or not my community who also loves their dog to an insane extent, like I did, but I would say honestly, maybe they are representative of something more. And I don’t mean that as a slight to anybody else’s love for their pets, but I think that can be said, for anyone who’s maybe, you know, regardless of the community they’re in, but anybody who’s faced a lot of loss, I think that having a pet can fill the space that that loss left.
So you know, when you’re, when you’re talking in a very general sense, groups of people who have lost a lot may look at their pets in a different way. Because that pet can, it can fill and heal some of those losses. You know, I know for me, just speaking only for myself, that Avery, my boy, build a space that was left just a big horrible hole that was left when I came out with friends who left the family that left. All that love that I was once given was withdrawn just because I said, you know, I’m the same person, but this is who I’ve been hiding. You know, this is what I didn’t want to tell you because I was scared of how you react. And the reaction was, I mean, my fears were confirmed. But the thing is, my dog didn’t care, my dog didn’t care.
He saw, you know, I gave him love. He gave me love, I took care of him, he took good care of me. And you know, where I normally would have given that love to family and friends. They weren’t there. So I gave it to him. So he was spoiled beyond belief. That boy got everything he ever wanted. And this girl gets everything, you know, with a healthy degree, obviously, but you know …
Angela
No judgment!
Julie
I know keeping them healthy at the same time. So you know, I don’t want to again, I don’t want to downplay any anyone’s love for their their pet because I feel like that’s, that’s not at all fair to say that, you know, because I’m queer I love my dog more is weird. I could never say that. But I can say that it filled losses that I know other people may not have gone through. I think anybody who’s experienced a level of, of loss, like those of us comparative to those of us in my community may feel a greater sense of pain and grief when their pet leaves. Just because that pet was representative of those losses, it filled the hole with those losses left. And when that new loss happens, it is just … it’s … it is a powerful thing to get through. It is … it is a tough road to get through that.
Angela
In my other life as a professional dog photographer, I had a client come to me in 2020 on the last day of his dog’s life, and he was telling me how he had had that dog since he was mid teens. And that dog comforted him through his coming out phase and through navigating university life. And, of course, losing that dog was absolutely devastating to him because it’s… because Dexter signaled to him all of the comfort that he needed through those stages.
Julie
Yeah, I understand that. I understand that pain and that level of loss. Yeah.
Angela
And it’s not anything of which I can conceive. Because no matter what messed up relationship I may have had with my parents, I didn’t go through that.
Julie
It’s … you know when, when no one else on Earth, or it feels like, you know, when it feels like you haven’t yet met your community, you haven’t yet met your people, what, whatever it may be, you know, when there’s no one else, and you are afraid to talk about whatever it might be, you know, whether it’s I’m gay, or I’m bi, or, you know, or I’m really down and I can’t tell this to anyone … your pets don’t judge you. This is the thing when when you’re being judged by everything, and if no one is personally judging you, you turn on the television, and everyone there is judging you. And your existence is a debate topic on every news network you come to, every political arena is discussing whether or not you deserve to live. I mean, and then you turn to this creature who does not care what you look like what you think they love you. They love you. The end.
Yes, that is, you know, people who say it’s just a dog and have a charmed, charmed life, I couldn’t, I would not want that thought. In my head, I don’t understand that kind of sentiment, because I don’t think those are people who interact with that pet. Because my, my boy and my girl, you know, they … you know how a dog looks at you. It is just complete acceptance. And for some when, when anyone, we’re community or otherwise, when you don’t see that look in another human’s eyes, you will take it where it comes. And humans, I feel like we need to need to learn a lot from animals. You know, I mean, animals don’t do things purely to hurt people … other than maybe orcas, but you know, like I am, they just have fun with those boats. And those seals, they can be mean.
But for the most part, animals are acting on an on, you know, just, it’s, it’s something that has to happen, you know, but my boy, he didn’t care. And that, you know, was what mattered to me, I would come home at the end of the day. And he didn’t question what I was wearing. He didn’t ask who I talked to. He didn’t, you know, asked me when I was gonna go back to church, he didn’t ask X, Y and Z of me, he was just okay, you’re home, I’m really happy to see you. And that level of love is honestly what all of us deserve. Just, you know, I missed you. I’m so glad you’re back. Like, why can’t we expect the same from people? You know, I mean, that’s such a simple thing. But it’s so rare that it’s a beautiful, you know, like, it’s so rare that we would hold it up. But, you know, we should because it’s beautiful.
Angela
When you said goodbye to Avery, were you able to lean on your community?
Julie
Unfortunately, not a lot. I did online because I was in Spain then and the pandemic was at full blast, and it was March. So it hit Spain really, really hard late February. So we were in, we were in the “you literally can’t go outside during most hours without a massive fine” kind of thing. Because Spain has, because of the I think it’s because of the health care system. There’s a very large, very elderly population, who are in pretty good health, but they’re susceptible to COVID. And we lost, Spain lost a massive amount of elderly folks. So you know, we weren’t able to leave our buildings. I wasn’t able to leave my apartment, unless it was the hours that … there were certain hours of the day, I was allowed to go outside. It was to keep elderly folks away from the main carriers. Elderly people were allowed to go out during certain hours and they were different hours than children and adults to keep the risk lower and try to try to minimize the deaths which it did very little to curb honestly. Because we’re kind of stuck here. In apartments. It’s hard.
But I did lean on my community through Facebook, fortunately and the outpouring I got because I did travel with him as a musician for a long time. So many people had met Avery that I think was the most commented on post I’ve ever put on anything on social media in my life. Everybody, everyone who had ever met him was just leaving words of love. And, you know that, that meant a lot to me, you know, for people to just say I’m sorry and he was such a good boy, you know, because, you know, he was, he was the best boy. I mean, everybody’s is the best but he was my best boy, you know. But, I mean, certainly I did get to be there. The one good thing about it being the pandemic was that the vet, he came to the house, and he was able to stay at home, and I was able to hold him and sing to him. So, yeah.
Angela
Are those stories of … have those stories of Avery helped you heal?
Julie
You know, I, you see my eyes. The thing is, you know, we, the grief doesn’t get smaller, we just, we we get bigger, you know, we make more we we grow, you know. So, you know, like, if people who are expecting the pain to go away, it’s, it’s not gonna, but you’re gonna grow stronger. So the pain is gonna seem smaller, the pains not gonna get smaller, you’re just going to get a lot stronger. And you’re going to be able to handle it better. It’s been over three years. You know, and the stories of him do help, because I know in the beginning, no, because it’s a process, you know, you have to … with my clients, I tell them, you know, you have to go through this process, you know, and it’s gonna look different for everyone. There are no … the stages of grief are kind of, you know, not necessarily true, you know, this, this linear motion through one, step one, step two, step three, no, it’s step one, then back, and then step five, I’m over it, and then you’re crying in a bathroom.
This is … it’s not reasonable to think that human brief can go through a very pointed process, you know, it’s hard, but, you know, you realize one day that you’re able to remember them without crying, you’re able to talk about them without crying, and you start remembering with a smile on your face instead of like, crumbled over in a corner with your friends asking you if you’re okay, you know, like, and, you know, I tried to tell my clients to, you know, and I call them, it just, it sounds so clinical, but, you know, people I work with, when, when we’re talking about feelings that are that powerful, you know, one of the tips I can give that, you know, sounds a little silly, but is to, it’s, to tell it, it belongs, you know, if you fight that feeling of sadness, or anger, that your pet is gone, you’re battling with yourself, it’s a battle, you’re not going to win.
It’s … just recognize the feeling and let it exist. Because it to get to the other side of it, you have to go through it. You can’t jump over it, you can’t shove it in the background. And you can, but it will come back and trust me, I’m just speaking from experience, it will come back because I went, I went just … I tried to turn myself into a stone when I lost him because I thought I am going to crumble. And you know what I did? I did crumble. I did crumble. But I’m here. And, you know, I, I have this picture sitting on the right across from me on the mantel. And well, on the TV stand, there are no mantles.
It’s a process and it’s hard, but, you know, honoring them by remembering and going through that pain, you know, it’s honoring them, because they want, you know, your pet would want you to move forward. Because they always loved you, you know, they always loved you. And so you have to accept those feelings and tell them that they belong there. And then move through them and let them happen and things do get better.
Angela
What can health care professionals do better to understand the issues around pet loss grief with respect to the queer community?
Julie
Well, with respect to the queer community, I have a lot to say about how health care providers can do better. They could understand what your community goes through. First of all, they could recognize that we’re human beings with the same wants and loves and needs and pains as everyone else. So once they do that and see us as human, I would say that I recommend they do what they do with anybody and recognize the loss of a pet as significant as any other loss. And not downplay it as it’s just a dog. It’s just a cat. You’ll get through it, it’s fine, because a lot of … I think a lot, and I’m not I’m not speaking of any of the health care providers I know and that I care about or have worked with, because they would not say those things. But I know a lot of … a lot of … I know a lot who would.
I think maybe not downplaying someone’s grief, in any situation is the best call for any health care provider, especially when it comes to mental health care providers. I think that just say that something we’re going through, which is something that is done to the queer community a lot Oh, well, you know, you lost your family, well, you came out what you expect, you know, I mean, oh, you lost your pet, oh, you’re sad, you’ll be fine. It’s a dog. These I feel are on the same level of, of, I’m not going to use the language I’d like to use right now. But they’re on the same level of just being horrific.
You have to … if someone is feeling very strongly about something, then that is valid. Everybody handles things differently. Everybody has different levels of what they can deal with and what they can’t. And if it’s very painful for someone to lose a pet, then that makes it valid, then you need to help that person with the level of pain the half, maybe some people will get through it a lot easier than others. And that doesn’t mean that it’s not painful, but maybe they get through it better than others. And that’s great for them. Some people have … are just … it’s like they got hit by a vehicle. And that’s valid too, and that people need to be met where they are and respected and not seen as something to the oh, you’re being dramatic and being brushed away. I think that would that would be a very … if people would take others’ feeling seriously, that would be the first step.
Angela
What can allies do better?
Julie
What can allies do better? As far as pet loss or just the queer community?
Angela
Yes.
Julie
Allies, I’m going to speak directly just to …
Angela
Please.
Julie
A lot of us are losing faith in you because honestly, we’re seeing you not go out and vote when our lives are at stake. We’re seeing you not speak up when someone says something homophobic in a large group, we’re seeing you quietly support us and right now we don’t need quiet. There’s a quote that says if you are an ally, and you’re not close enough to get hit by the rocks they’re throwing, you’re not close enough. Please speak up. You know, it … I know it’s hard to get involved, especially in a country, if you’re listening from the U.S., especially when you know that half the people around you are carrying a weapon. Please don’t put yourself in an unsafe position. But it just means being uncomfortable, please, if someone is, is being transphobic, or homophobic, in a group setting, at work, anywhere, you know, please say something. Call it out. Because if the person standing behind you is a member of my community, and they are on the edge of what they can handle being in this world, hearing you say something in their defense, you could save their life. And I mean, I know that sounds dramatic. But I have been that person standing behind someone.
So you don’t know how powerful your words are. And you might think it’s such a small thing. Why would I say anything? Because. Who’s around you? Who’s gonna hear you? Please. You know, if you love someone who is queer or trans, you know, maybe you suspect they are. Please say something speak out against homophobia and transphobia. Because honestly, you are … you are safe, you are a lot safer than we are. You have the privilege to open your mouth and say those things without being possibly killed in the parking lot later or followed home or being attacked online to an extent that, you know, your mental health is in … in a horrible state. So please say something please stand close enough that you’re hit with what we’re hit with.
Because, you know, we need you. I’m sorry about that. We’ve got to, you know, we’ve got a road out here. We need you really, really badly. So please vote, please, please fight against the things you see happening. Because seeing you fight gives us the hope to keep fighting, and a lot of us are running low on that. It’s exhausting to wake up every day and feel like you have to fight everyone just to make it through your day, you know.
And to those of you who are already doing that, thank you so much. You have no idea the impact it makes maybe, maybe no one fabulous has come up to you and thrown glitter at you and said, you know, some queer catchphrase, but this is me throwing glitter at you and saying yeah, you’re fabulous. I’m gonna appropriate that from the game and the Black community right now. I’m sorry. But you know, it is the it is the, you know, the drag queen catchphrase that we love.
Angela
I’ll take all the glitter I can possibly take place.
Julie
I’m throwing so much glitter right now, thank you so much for standing with us. And please do that not just for the queer community, please do that for the Black community as well. Because, you know, the queer community are not the only ones who are being attacked. It’s just the loudest fight right now. But, you know, the Black man, the Black community and the queer community, we have a lot of crossover. So you know, please, please stand up for marginalized folks. You know, because we see it and hear it, and we appreciate that I’m speaking for me. I hear it, and I see it, and I appreciate it. And, you know, the strangers I see standing against the transphobic marches and that they don’t I wish I could hug every one of those people. I can’t. But I would, you know, and I know I speak for a lot of people when I say that.
Angela
Why is it then so important that you exist in this world as a growth and mindset coach for the LGBT community?
Julie
Hmm, um, I think it’s important just because I am, I feel everybody should be their authentic self, and they should follow what fills their soul. And because we, you know, we have one life, and I’m trying to do the most with mine that I can. And for me, that means being authentic to myself, and being authentic to what feels like my calling, and what feels like I’m supposed to do. So existing as a growth and mindset coach for the queer community, what I’m trying to do is create a safe space where there is literally, there’s no judgement, there is no implicit bias, no microaggressions will be popping up in the conversation, you don’t have to worry about me mentioning, maybe you should try, you know, religious organization or X … I will not gloss over the fact that you are a member of the community, because that I feel is part of, you know, what makes you you. You are respected, accepted and loved. And you are my family.
And as someone who identifies as nonbinary, I do understand how hard it can be to wonder, to sit across from someone and try to be vulnerable, while wondering if they’re judging you or even without knowing maybe, maybe, maybe they’re trying to figure out what I am right now. You know, that’s a … that’s a feeling that shouldn’t creep in when you’re trying to be vulnerable, when you’re trying to solve things that have nothing to do with that really, you know, well tangentially but when you’re trying to work on your work-life balance and be authentic and honest about what’s going on at your house. You don’t want to tiptoe around the fact that you know, you call your partner they and I you don’t want to wonder should I clarify this for the person I’m talking to? Not with me? No, you should not.
I thought that this was maybe a valuable thing to try to do because I experienced a lot of just homophobia with mental health care providers and it wasn’t blatant, but it was you know, it’s … there are little microaggressions that pop out there just things that people don’t even realize are offensive or said and I understand because you know, you can understand someone, you can look at someone you can learn about someone that is not like you until you know your dying day, you can be their ally, but unless you have walked that walk and live that life, you will never know the feeling. And you’ll never know the intensity that that can, can carry that you’ll never truly, truly understand.
For instance, I mean, I support Black Lives Matter, but I would never say I understand what the Black community is going through. Now, I don’t know notes. Because when I drive my car, I have a, I don’t have a set entire set of worries that a Black man would have when driving that car. So yes, I can stand with the Black community, but I cannot understand. So people who stand with the queer community, I appreciate and love those people. But there is a limit to the level of understanding that can happen.
So I feel like people who are maybe a little bit … some people may find a little more comfort talking to someone who is also a member of their community, who has also faced trauma and loss. And you know, that can be a comfort in itself. I don’t know if it’s an important, you know, I want to say it’s important. You asked me why is it important that I’m in the world, in the world as this, I think just in general, because I’m living my truth. And I think everybody should try to do that. And I’m trying to make a difference. I’m trying to strengthen the community, one person at a time, because the more … the more people we have who are calm and settled and feel more confident, you know, the better. I’m trying to hold up a mirror to people to remind them of the strength they have. And I think that some of the strongest people in the world are in my community, because to live day after day like this and keep going, oh, the strength. And I admire and love and respect that so much in my family. And I try to show them those qualities because we forget we have those. And I can hold up a mirror that is clean, because I am not in the middle of it. I can see it sometimes more clearly than you.
Angela
What are some books or other resources that people in your community can lean on when they’re in times of grief possibly, especially pet loss grief?
Julie
That’s really difficult, because I think it kind of, I usually don’t send people to books. I know there are a lot of good books out there. I don’t have like a list of them, though. Because a lot of times when you’re in that place, I encourage people to kind of get out of … like not sit and maybe that’s how if you deal with grief better in that way to sit quietly and kind of maybe that’s what some people want. Me personally, I find that that actually makes me worse. Because it gives me too much time to think.
I’m, I have I mentioned before I have ADHD, so I tend to sit and hyperfocus on things that are not always very good for me. And a lot of my clients are in the same space, in the same place. So I don’t necessarily suggest books. I think if you do a Google search on that you could find some things. But what I suggest is trying to connect with community really, and if you don’t feel like leaving the house, which I know a lot of people don’t after losing a loved one, which is exactly what it is. It’s not a pet. It’s a loved one. It’s your family, excuse me. If you can’t force yourself to leave the house, that’s fine. That’s fine. Go on Facebook. You know, go on… just go on, go look on Eventbrite and type in the word queer if you’re a queer person, and look for events. There are a lot sometimes their coffee, their chats with random people, and they just talk about things and come together as community on Zoom.
I would go on Facebook, join a community group that matches what you need, maybe loss or something. Best though, you know, reach out to the friends you know, see a pet as more than just a pet, you know more than just a dog. Reach out to those people and just talk about anything you can, you know, maybe not the pet at that moment. You know, especially if it’s fresh, you know, try to try to just surround yourself with people who support you. Whatever that looks like for you. I feel like moving forward is such an individual thing. It’s really hard for me to give advice that is a blanket that works for everyone because it rarely does. I initially thought oh I’ll learn these things that will work for everyone. No, that’s not true. We are all too different. And that is beautiful.
If you do something and it gives you a spark of joy in that moment, or you feel the weight of that sadness, lift just a tiny bit, do that thing again, I also suggest people to go take a walk, a five minute walk is still a walk, if that’s all you can manage, and be gentle with yourself, this isn’t really a walk, I just walked around the corner, and then back, that’s a walk, you did it. And you were out of the space you were having that sadness in for a moment, removing that place where you’re suffering, leaving that place for just a little bit can make a big impact, even if it’s just for a few minutes.
So I try to encourage people not to isolate because I made that mistake. And I know that can be very, very damaging, it allows the intrusive, the negative thoughts to grow. And just the focus on that, you know, if you are going to isolate yourself, find a good series that is somehow uplifting or just so dumb that you would never watch it. Honestly. Find some reality TV, it will make you feel better about yourself. Just you know, and you don’t have to think you don’t have to focus, you can zone out. There are sounds around you that are distracting you. You know it’s keep your mind a little bit busy if you can, and I know it’s hard when you’re going through that level of loss. It was very hard for me.
Angela
Yeah, if you’re looking for something binge worthy that will make you feel better about yourself, I highly recommend the love is blind series on Netflix.
Julie
Oh, yeah. No, I … unfortunately, yes. I went through a very low point in my mental health. And let me tell you, I felt so much better about myself. After I was like, okay, you know what, I’m not, I’m not, I’m not doing that. So, and by that I don’t want to give away any spoilers but you know, like, just chasing after someone who treats you horribly. No, I was like, Okay, things are bad, but I could be worse. Like, you know, reality TV can help with that a lot, unfortunately. But yeah, Love is Blind, The Ultimatum is also quite dramatic, over the top, even but it will distract you. You will not … you will lose brain cells. I’m sorry, you will … brain cells will shrivel up. But you’re not thinking about the sad thing, which is good to not focus on that too much. At least in the in the very in the very, not for a bit.
Angela
You’re based in Spain. Are you available to work with anyone anywhere in the world?
Julie
I actually am. I only live in Spain. I work. My clients are primarily in the US and the UK. So yes, my I work. My level of Spanish is decent, but because I believe … I’m not working with the Spanish community yet. Because I feel like with coaching, you need to understand the nuances of language because you’re dealing with feelings and emotions, and I am not, I need to get a little bit better first, or else I might miss important things. And also with coaching, you use the phone, because what I do at least because you … I tune myself to kind of notice subtle shifts in tone. Because that can signal maybe something someone doesn’t want to talk about or something someone’s kind of omitting. Or maybe you know with tone you can hear okay, someone’s saying they love something but that is not a voice that reflects that they love it. We’ll dive deeper in that point. So that makes it very hard with a language barrier as well at least even a small language barrier. So yes, I actually I do work primarily with the U.S. But also I have some clients from the U.K. as well.
Angela
Julie, what is one last piece of advice you can give our listeners?
Julie
Let yourself be yourself. If you I know that sounds silly and maybe doesn’t make sense. But if you are falling apart because you lost your pet, that’s valid and be gentle with yourself. It’s okay, you know. If you feel like maybe you aren’t what those around you, er, if you feel like your true self wouldn’t be accepted by those around you, whatever that might look like or be I would highly encourage you to take the step and be who you are. Because the people you lose in the end, it’s not … it’s, it’s not worth losing yourself, you know?
For those who’ve lost a pet, keep your head up as much, that sounds callous. But please keep moving forward. I know that the anger and the grief and the despair that you feel is normal, it’s part of you healing. Your pet is still with you in a way, because they live in your heart, and they live in your memories, and you made their life better, just like they made yours better. And you can … no one can take that from you. The pain will become bearable, and you will come through it. And I believe that you will. And if you’re, you know, if you’re feeling like people around you won’t accept you, for whatever reason, find better people. It doesn’t matter if that’s … if you’re if you’re you think you might be queer, if you think you might be trans, you know … It, I’m not even just talking about that, you know, maybe, maybe you want to be a doctor, and everybody in your family wants you to, you know, be a lawyer, those are very … go, go be what you want to be, this is your life. And you know, you end up trading for other people’s approval. Don’t trade yourself for that. Because it’s not a … it’s not a payment you can afford.
Angela
Thank you so much for joining us.
Julie
Thank you so much for having me.
Angela
Julie, one last thing. Tell us where in the world to find you.
Julie
Oh, well, people can email me at coachjulieschurr@gmail.com. So if anybody has any questions or anything or just wants to talk, first call with most coaches is free. So mine is , so feel free to reach out to me via email or for any tips or anything. I love talking to people. So I’ll try to give you any advice I can. And you can also find me online. And, um, I also have a website that I use. It’s the same coachjulieschurr.com. So yeah, as long as you’re looking up, Julie and sure some combination of those, you’re going to end up finding me and if you put quiere in front of that, you’ll probably find me a lot faster. Because I think there’s one other Julie Schurr out there who is a gynecologist, ironically enough, and she hates me. So I would just like to, I’m sure she absolutely hates me. So feel free to reach out with any questions you might have. I’d love to answer them for you, or give you resources for the queer community as well. Or anything on grief. I’ll try to dig things up for you. I have no issue, just emailing that to people.
Angela
Awesome. And we’ll have all those links in the show notes as well. Thank you so much for joining us today, Julie.
Julie
Thank you so much for having me. And thank you for everyone who’s listening.
Angela
I am a cisgender, heterosexual woman … colloquially, cishet.
I cannot conceive of the feelings or experiences my queer friends have endured … or continue to endure in a world that keeps targeting them as “others.”
I have loved and lost. I have loved and lost my best friend, my soulmate, my dog Shep. Pets are a source of unconditional love, understanding and solace in a world that may not always be accepting.
They are a sanctuary, and they give us a home where we can be ourselves without fear or judgment.
In a world that judges, in a world where our queer friends and family face discrimination, isolation, hate and violence, their pets can bring a sense of belonging and acceptance.
To lose them can be devastating.
The world gives us little choice but to rise back up with resilience and our friends and family in the queer community have overcome or are overcoming a unique set of challenges, all that come from simply living their truth.
That resilience, borne of the grieving process, is essential for healing, be you straight, gay or trans. And we can all take a lesson in strength and resilience from our queer friends and family, because they continue to rise up and face the roadblocks that society puts in front of them.
With glitter.
Tons and tons of glitter.
My friends, love is love.
Next week, I turn the mic over to Darlene Woodward of Pant the Town Photography in Georgetown, Massachusetts. She’s interviewing E.B. Bartels, author of Good Grief: On Loving Pets, Here and Hereafter.
Until then …
