Kylee’s journey in pet photography has shifted in the last several years. Since adopting an emotional Dutch shepherd named Omega, she has realized pet parents with reactive dogs may not feel confident in exposing their best fur friends to a portrait session.
She wants to change that and ensure pet parents in Northern California not only have the opportunity but also the resources to learn how to manage their little basket cases.
Kylee found a wonderful resource in Allison Daack of Daack Pack Dog Training, which Allison founded in June 2016 after nearly a decade of working in wildlife rehabilitation and dog training facilities around the United States.
Allison and her team are committed to helping owners create practical, actionable solutions to problematic behaviors using the latest science on animal behavior, a deep understanding of their client’s lifestyles and needs and an empathetic approach.
I’m turning the mic over to Kylee this week so she can put Allison on the hot seat about working with reactive dogs. Have a listen. You are sure to pick up a few things about working with your own sweet babe.
What to Listen For
3:07 What drew Allison to animal training
9:05 What does “reactive” mean for humans and dogs
15:17 How Allison uses fear-free training
24:12 The signs of increased reactivity in older dogs
29:19 Why you should do your research before hiring a dog trainer
Find Allison
Angela Schneider
Welcome back to One Last Network.
Last week, I interviewed professional pet photographer Kylee Doyle of Kylee Doyle Photography in Sacramento, California.
Kylee’s journey in pet photography has shifted in the last several years. Since adopting an emotional Dutch shepherd named Omega, she has realized pet parents with reactive dogs may not feel confident in exposing their best fur friends to a portrait session.
She wants to change that and ensure pet parents in Northern California not only have the opportunity but also the resources to learn how to manage their little basket cases.
Kylee found a wonderful resource in Allison Daack of Daack Pack Dog Training, which Allison founded in June 2016 after nearly a decade of working in wildlife rehabilitation and dog training facilities around the United States.
Allison and her team are committed to helping owners create practical, actionable solutions to problematic behaviors using the latest science on animal behavior, a deep understanding of their client’s lifestyles and needs and an empathetic approach.
I’m turning the mic over to Kylee this week so she can put Allison on the hot seat about working with reactive dogs. Have a listen. You are sure to pick up a few things about working with your own sweet babe.
Kylee Doyle
I’m meeting today with Allison Daack, the founder of Daack Pack Dog Training, serving pet parents in the greater Sacramento area. Allison and her team specialize in helping pet parents find practical, actionable solutions to problematic behaviors through fear free and empathetic training approaches. Today, Allison will be sharing her work with reactive dogs with us. And we’ll get a little bit into how reactivity can change in our fur babies as they age. Welcome to the podcast, Alison.
Allison Daack
Hi, thanks for having me.
Kylee
I’m so excited to have you here. So for those of you who have listened to my previous episode, where I talked a little bit about my work in photographing reactive dogs, and my own fur baby Omega, Allison is actually the trainer who helped us to get through those early struggles with him and learn how to manage that reactivity. So I’m really excited for her to be able to share some of her expertise with everyone. So go ahead and tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got started.
Allison
Yeah, so I’ve been training animals for about 15 years now. I actually started working as like a veterinarian assistant at like a dog store that my or like a pet store that my dad had when I was really when I was really young. And then very quickly after that, I did some work with wildlife in the greater Sacramento area, and then ended up doing a little bit of work with exotics and rehab in a couple of different states. And then, you know, I did some work with some various dog training companies and just felt like they, like I was never able to fully like hit the mark and being able to like help people. So I ended up starting Daack Pack Dog Training, kind of focusing on behavior. So really focusing on dogs that are experiencing fear, anxiety, aggression, or atypical behaviors. And started that in June of 2016. And then I kind of brought on a few of my colleagues that I had been working with for years, to be able to better service everybody and so now we kind of work really collaboratively on cases and react, like reactive dogs are that you know, kind of barking, lunging, especially like on leash. You know, that and like stranger danger dogs are probably our most common cases that we see a lot of.
Kylee
So what led you to want to specialize in those types of dogs?
Allison
You know, I think I growing up like I just always had a draw towards animals and behavior. You know, my dad was the assistant manager of the SPCA growing up. My mom actually went to school with a degree in like psychology and biology, like focusing on doing what I do now, but with birds. And she ended up running a pet store. And so I just kind of like grew up with, I mean, dozens and dozens and dozens of animals in my house from toucans to dogs to seahorses, turtles, like we had a whole, like, foster animal room. And I just kind of like, feel like, every step in life, even if I tried to step away from animals at one point, I was, did EMT work and stuff like that. And I always just got drawn back towards animals.I feel like there’s just a connection there. You don’t change the world by the average person doesn’t change the world by doing these like large heroic things. It’s just like helping to spread kindness and like day to day life. And I feel like, I feel like I love what I do. And I feel like I’m able to make such a big impact in people’s lives and animals’ life and lives and it’s just, I don’t know, like there’s just nothing, there’s nothing as rewarding as like what I do now that I can think of.
Kylee
I love that. So I know that you mentioned that you work a lot with reactive dogs and like stranger danger, are there any specific types of dogs that you really enjoy working with more than others? or ones that you feel like need the help more than others?
Allison
Yeah, you know, I think the more complicated the case, the more I love it. I really enjoy, you know, like, we work really closely with like, UC Davis, and like, their animal behavior department, and like the veterinarian behaviorist team over there, and they’re fantastic. And we get a lot of these cases where it’s like, you know, a lot of the cases we work with have multiple diagnoses, have really complicated behaviors, or elements of the case are really complicated. It’s just awful. I feel like when you have a dog that has these emotional issues, because when you look at a lot of dogs that even are reactive, or that we would label reactive, it’s mild lack of obedience, it’s an emotional response. And, you know, it’s so, it’s so hard to, like, look at that, and see, you know, it’s so easy to feel on an island when you’re the pet parent, but they’re going through it, but it’s this weird, it’s, it’s so hard, because it’s like, you get this dog that’s so scared, or anxious or frustrated with all of these complicated associations, just kind of like living on this, you know, in this like, high arousal high stress state. And, you know, you have people who are feeling overwhelmed, they may be feeling guilty and embarrassed, scared, you know, it’s just, it’s a lot. It’s so hard to be in that place. And I’ve been in that place with some of my own animals in the past, and it’s such a difficult place, like, sometimes we all just need like a hand up out. For the animal and the human, we just need a hand out of the water. And it’s, it’s really rewarding, being able to walk in and help things line up, and not every case pans out. There’s a lot of things that are outside of, you know, my control, or even owners’ controls. But you know, there’s a lot of cases that we can make such a, like, such a world changing difference. And it may only be the world of that one dog or the world of that one person who owns that dog. But those worlds still matter. And it’s those cases where it’s like a lot of, you know, where it’s like other professionals referring it to me where they’re just, there’s not a lot of hope. You know, and just like a lot to like, behaviorally tear apart, where you know, you may have like resource guarding issues, you may have sound sensitivity, sound diversion issue to strangers. So then you have like, all these different pieces to the puzzle that kind of all have to be triaged and processed through. And those are, those are the cases that I find the most rewarding.
Kylee
And I think it’s so important the distinction that you make, that with these types of dogs, it’s not usually an obedience issue. It’s more of an emotional problem, or they’re very anxious, they’re nervous, they’re scared, because I think, with my own dog Omega, that was when we first came to you that was where we were struggling, because for us, it was this dog. He’s not even capable of listening to any, anything that we’re telling him, because he’s so overwhelmed by his emotions. And I think the people that are going through this with their dogs really have to come to understand that.
Allison
Yeah, and I think going back to kind of like today’s topic of reactivity. I think sometimes, when we look at reactivity, it’s a reactive dog. It’s not a diagnosis we would see necessarily like from a veterinary behaviorist. It’s a label or construct that we give to describe, like behaviors that we can see and a lot of times it’s, you know, a dog that’s barking or lunging, and it can be a really helpful medium for us to communicate together quickly. But sometimes I feel like when we use say, like reactivity, we can accidentally create or lock ourselves into like a self-fulfilling prophecy, where it’s like the dog is reactive, it’s not aggressive, it’s reactive. It’s not fearful. Sometimes we can get so locked into the reactive label that I feel like sometimes we can miss what’s behind it? You know, OK, the dog’s reactive but why? You know, is the dog scared of people? Does the dog experience fear-based aggressive behaviors towards strangers? Or is it super excitable about other dogs and is experiencing barrier frustration because it can’t get to that dog? Reactivity is great to communicate to each other, but I think sometimes we can get stuck, I’ll see that very frequently with especially like human-directed type behaviors like that where it’s the dog’s, the dog’s reactive, it’s not aggressive. And it’s like, okay, well the dog is barking and lunging and air snapping, and yeah, maybe hasn’t bitten anybody yet, but that potential is there, it’s an animal with a mouth and teeth, that potential to bite is there. Those feelings are there. And so, I think it’s great, but I think sometimes we can get stuck in those labels a little bit and get lost from the whole picture.
Kylee
Yeah, and that’s an interesting point, because I think even with my pet photography clients, because I do always ask beforehand, especially in that I do work with plenty of dogs who may have some sort of reactivity or anxiousness, that we do tend to use that broader reactive term. It is very important that even with my work that I kind of try to drill down into what does reactive mean to you? Because I agree, I think we kind of label it as this broader term. So that we can kind of understand, hey, there’s something that’s maybe unique with this dog that could be aggression, could be not aggression. But I think getting kind of drilling down into what does that actually mean is that anxiety, is it nervousness, Is it fear is definitely important. So, let’s talk a little bit more about the types of training that you offer. I know that you are Fear Free certified. So let’s talk a little bit about that, and how the types of training methods that you use can really be helpful with these types of dogs.
Allison
Yeah, so being certified Fear Free , is through Fear Free Pets, and you can actually find not only dog trainers who are certified, but veterinarians, whole veterinarian clinics, or groomers. And I believe they have a pet sitter certification now, or maybe thinking about a different program. That program in itself is for at least, the dog trainer side, you have to have certain credentials ahead of time, and kind of like, take a little like, mini tests to like qualify into it. And then it’s this like modular program with all these quizzes and stuff. That is quite a bit of time. And it’s focused on handling and training techniques that help to reduce fear and anxiety in animals, and especially around like cooperative care or like, handling and in veterinarian clinics.
And then, you know, that that kind of translates to our training approach, in general. So for background, I am a crossover trainer, I have used a lot of different techniques, over my years of training animals from using shock collars and prong collars. I think this topic itself could probably be several podcasts, and so, definitely a very, very passionate and heated topic.
Within the professional community, it’s called, it’s like the Great Divide but, you know, just focusing on my own journey and my own perspective, I am, as I learned more and especially as I grew my own education, because what’s hard about dog training and what a lot of people, I don’t think realize is that dog training in the United States more or less is pretty unregulated. We can use any terms we want, we can have any limited experience, you know, it even gets questionable into past experiences with animals and stuff like that. And like, it’s just, it is unregulated, like you can do and say and tell people, whatever you want with more or less no repercussions, you know, unless you have credentials like mine, then they can get revoked and stuff. But it’s a little bit like the Wild West. So you get a lot of different variations. And when I, in the beginning of my career, I was very much like, learned on like, learned by mentors learned by just doing it myself without really a whole lot of education, because I didn’t have to have an education.
And I think, as I’ve learned more about the science, and the how, and the why, and physiology and evolution of dogs, and getting into all of that stuff. I’ve really gravitated towards fear free and like force-free training. And I found personally, like, if I look back, over my career, I feel like the more force I’ve had to use with an animal, the less skills I had in that moment, the less tools in my toolbox, I had that moment to fall back on. Because I think it’s the game of it’s not that punishment doesn’t work. It’s not that those things don’t work, but they come at a risk.
They do come at risk from either emotional, or physically, there are risks. And when there’s ways that we can get the same results without having to risk fear or anxiety, without having to risk emotional confliction, without having to risk issues. You know, for example, like, I think a really common one that I’ve seen, I can think back to a couple of cases, there was this one client that I worked with in Lincoln to give a specific anecdote. They hired me for a dog that you would label as reactive if the dog saw dogs or people on walks, lunge, bark, growl, air snap. The dog happened to be a pitbull … several years old, so like, kind of like after full development.
And I just, I’ll always remember the consultation I had with them as I walked in. The dog was on a prong collar. And when we did kind of the initial assessment, and we set up for that stranger protocol and tried to add in some behavior modification techniques like counter conditioning and desensitization, where it’s like, me as the monster equals awesome stuff. Essentially, every time I saw that prong collar tighten, the intensity of the dog’s behavior would increase. And I had them switch off the prong collar.
And then it’s one thing to like, if I have a new client, like, it’s the goal is to transition away from tools, but I’m not going to come in and just like, knock clients out at the knees. A lot of times, we’re, you know, people are hanging on by a thread, and maybe, maybe, maybe it’s that maybe it’s that collar, and it’s like, OK, like, I need to give you something else that serves the same function for you. So that I can shift you away. I’m not going to take the one thing that makes you feel mildly comfortable. That’s not a good way for people to learn either. And so I’m like, OK, like, let’s just try something and I had them switch to just like a flat buckle collar. Then we didn’t see that same increase of intensity, you know, whether that was like, more intense behavior, the dog would also like, look around and try to bite the leash and stuff and just switching the dog off the prong collar. The dog didn’t get as intense, was not redirecting, was much more responsive to the treats and settle down.
And if I take a step back and look at like what’s happening, even if it’s not a dog that’s displaying that intense behavior, even if it’s just say that like really excitable dog on leash, pulling towards it, pulling in, barking towards another dog, because they want to play an interact. Well, that dog on leash on that tool as they go to engage that other dog, that’s when the dogs getting receiving that punishment. So, and I think something that’s important for us to remember is, what’s punishing what’s reinforcing and what those associations are rubbed off on are at end of the day up to the learner, up to the dog. How is that dog forming that association? Is it the, you know, OK, like, I see another dog when I’m on leash, oh man, like, it’s so frustrating, all I want to do is play, I’m gonna now have like bigger frustration, okay, like get more intense as I tried to get to that other dog out like, Oh, this is so annoying, This is so frustrating. And so then what can happen over time is that that animal’s behavior gets more intense, and that can happen with or without tools, like, punishment-based tools.
That just adds like one more piece to that puzzle that can add confliction, that can increase frustration, that can potentially cause some anxiety, or intensify the dog’s association. Because punishment’s really hard to do like in operant conditioning, looking at using aversives,like positive punishment or negative reinforcement correctly to teach a behavior requires a lot of skill, it’s not as forgiving as, as positive reinforcement always is. It takes really, really dialed in timing and precision, precision and observation skills. And it’s kind of one of those where it’s like, if, if you have, if you’re good enough to do that correctly, then you’re good enough to not need to. There are other tools out there without, that don’t pose the risk of intensifying those behaviors, or the risk of fallout and creating new issues or new associations.
Kylee
Right, very true. So these dogs that you work with, that we might label as reactive, just to pivot a little bit, do you ever see increasing or changing reactivity or behavioral issues as they age?
Allison
I think it’s, it’s common to see dogs that show some maybe smaller signs when they’re younger, so maybe they’re the six-month-old puppy that has like a really hard stare and like fixates really hard or is really hyper vigilant, maybe they pull a little bit, maybe they like bark and pull a little, but then they can like redirect or maybe they’re not necessarily reactive, but they’re really hesitant, you know, maybe they’re, they tried to avoid people or dogs, they approach them in a more hesitant manner. Or the other side of things, maybe they’re just super excited, and they just try to, like, pull you down the street to see stuff. Where we see, see these emotional responses starting to form, but they’re young dogs without a lot of learned history, so they’re just smaller behaviors. And then a big point where we can see a lot of clients kind of like, see these big shifts are around, like, you know, like one and a half to two and a half, you know, around where like, like, emotional maturity and like, starts to, like, set in dogs, it’s really common to see where the dogs have enough learned history now. Or their brain is kind of developed enough to start forming bigger associations and start kind of hanging like, I, like, I’m not, I try to avoid other dogs and people and that doesn’t really work that well. And they start being able to put those pieces together. And we can start seeing more intense behaviors around like that age in particular.
Kylee
What about in elderly dogs? Do you ever see it, you know, as they start to slow down, maybe they’re a little bit more in pain from arthritis or other illnesses going on?
Allison
Yeah, you know, and a lot of times, like, once once dogs are, like, older, a lot of times it’s not like a I feel like it’s less common that I see like an elder, like an elderly dog have like a new type of reactive behavior, but maybe it’s a little bit more intense and definitely like, when we look at behavior, you know, there’s a lot that goes into behavior, including like physical health and how the animal’s feeling, and I think really common places where we can see behaviors getting exaggerated from would be like osteo issues. So like arthritis, hip dysplasia, even allergies can be a big proponent, dental problems, you know, GI issues, you know, if you don’t feel good, you’re you have a much, it’s common to have a much shorter fuse. And the same is true with dogs. And when we start getting older, there can be more physical things that can be happening that can make them not feel good, that can definitely exasperate behaviors.
Kylee
So are there any specific types of signs that you would recommend pet parents look for, especially in like older dogs, that maybe they’re not as obvious with their signs that they might be starting to experience some increased reactivity?
Allison
Yeah, definitely. And, you know, I can definitely give my two cents on it. You know, at the end of the day, I’m not a veterinarian. So definitely partnering with your veterinarian is a big help but any like, I think the number one thing to look for too is like a really like sudden change of behavior. If your dog for the first 10 years of its life, like never barked and lunged at leash, on leash, and at 10 years old, without like, anything noticeably really happening or changing, that behavior kind of changes drastically. Any, like, chain, drastic change of behavior is important, because not only do we get into the things that we mentioned earlier, but we can also get into hormonal like imbalances and thyroid issues and, and things like that, that we can’t always see. But like any sudden change in the dog’s behavior, whether that’s more intense behavior, or the dog’s becoming more lethargic, if, like, the dog starts getting like, really stinky breath, or like a change in appetite. You know, maybe they love eating the, like, maybe they’ll still eat their wet food and their treats, but they don’t really eat kibble anymore, when they always have in the past, or like mobility issues, you know, maybe they don’t really hop on the bed anymore. And they used to love that. But you notice, they really don’t anymore, or maybe they don’t have on this sofa anymore, or not as frequently or they don’t go up the stairs as much anymore. Maybe their walk is a lot stiffer, you know, maybe they don’t really want to play fetch anymore.
I think the biggest thing, animals can mask pain and discomfort with really well. I think one of the best signs is just like, a change of behavior and kind of taking a step back and being like what could affect that? Okay, you know, like, this dog used to love to play fetch, and like, you know, now they just don’t anymore, you know? Did something bad happen during fetch? Is the dog also not really participating in other physical exercise as much or doesn’t seem to be enjoying it as much. If there’s vomiting or diarrhea that’s starting to occur even like, intermittently?
Yeah, like any, like any of those, the key, the key is, and there’s so many different types of behaviors that can exist, but really, like a sudden, like a sudden change is just such a key, key thing to like, bring up to your veterinarian.
Kylee
Yeah, definitely, definitely watch for those things. Are there any specific resources beyond working with your veterinarian that you would recommend for pet parents who might be struggling with reactivity in their dogs?
Allison
First off, like, depending on what’s going on, like there are times where looking at behavior modification could potentially be helpful in some dogs and that’s something that your veterinarian may or may not have experience in and that’s where partnering with like a veterinarian behaviorist could be helpful. If we have a dog that has a wide range of triggers, maybe has a really delayed recovery time, you know, has a really intense … really goes into really high arousal levels, a lot of impulsivity, very compulsive. If there’s things like generalized anxiety or separation anxiety or sound diversion, or if it’s something where it’s like, not manageable … A dog, another dog could be within 300 feet of us. And there’s absolutely nothing that I can do, where it’s just that intense, you know, that’s always a resource.
Looking for qualified trainers. So, especially trainers that are educated and have experience working with dogs with similar issues to the issues that you’re seeing,and that could be looking for dogs that have a certification through the CCPDT, or, through the IAABC. Or is a graduate from the Academy of Dog Trainers, or the Karen Pryor Academy, or the Victoria Stilwell Academy. Those could be good places to look, to start with, you’re still going to have to do some, some weeding a bit, but looking for people who have some legit legitimate credentials, and experience can be really helpful.
And especially since the industry is unregulated, looking for people who chose to be regulated, … because there’s things like if I did, and it was ever reported to any of the agencies that I have credentials through, like, I would get them revoked, potentially.
So you know, looking where there’s some level of accountability, and then from there really, really take the time to talk to the person that you’re looking at hiring, ask them questions, you know, about not only like their prices, but also, you know, like, what are the methods they use? Like, what are their comfort level? Are they collaborative with other professionals, like are there additional resources they have, and, like, make sure that it’s someone that you’re really comfortable with, and you are comfortable in the approach that they use, and you feel like they connect with you.
I think that’s like, the biggest thing at the end of the day is, a lot of times we think of dog training as like a dog trainer coming out and training the dog, but a lot of it is training the people. So not only do we want someone who’s going to be good at training the dog, but you want to find someone who you feel like you can like who you can learn from, I know that you feel like they’re going to be a good teacher for you.
And all of those places to have a lot of like blogs and like resources on their own websites as well, you know, along with like webinars or smaller self-paced courses, Fear Free pet tests have good resources as well. You know, honestly, like if you’re in the Sacramento dog area that Sacramento Dog Owners Facebook group run by Caleb Locke is really good. We also have a private Facebook group that people are welcome to join called the Daack Pack. And in your own community, see if there are trainers that have some more community-based resources, like Facebook groups like that, or if you talk to your shelter, maybe the shelter has some more community-oriented programs that are available.
Kylee
That’s awesome. I know, you know, personally, I have definitely used a lot of those local resources. So for anyone else in the Sacramento area, I would say for sure, check some of those Facebook groups out. Is there anything that we didn’t talk about that you wanted to share?
Allison
Oh, man, you know, like, I, I could talk forever about dogs. Um …
Kylee
Couldn’t we all?
Allison
Yeah, like there’s so many different paths that I could go down. I mean, if anyone if anyone needs any help, we offer like circuses in the greater Sacramento area and online. Or honestly like if people are looking for a local dog trainer in the area, but they’re having a hard time, feel free to reach out, you know, I’m always happy to help connect people with trainers, they’re especially like, there’s such a big network within our own internal communities to really try to refer out to other individuals.
Kylee
Yeah, so what’s the best way for people to reach out to you or get more information on working with you?
Allison
Yeah, you know, if you go to our website, daackpack.com. So D-A-A-C-K-P-A-C-K, we have our, we offer like a free 15-minute virtual screening for people, and you can sign up for that directly on the website. And then we also have, you know, our phone number 916-287-3230. We have our Facebook page and our Instagram account, too, that we post information on and we’re hoping to hear shortly, start actually offering group reactivity classes in the greater Sacramento area that will be available to the public to take along with a handful of other classes that were in the works of getting set up here. And that should start in the next month or two. So if that’s something that you’re interested in, you can always reach out to us and we can put you on the kind of waitlist for that. Or if you keep an eye out on our social media. We’ll definitely get some more information out in the next week or two as we finalize everything.
Kylee
Well, this has been super informative. Thank you so much for all the great information and for joining me on the podcast, Alison.
Allison
Yeah, of course. Thank you so much for having me.
Angela
When we were faced with the puppy stage eight years ago and a dog that was raised on a farm by her canine parents, Icelandic ducks and Nigerian dwarf goats, we encountered some reactivities of our own.
It was with patience and understanding of the livestock guardian genre of dog that we were successful in calming our own little basket case.
We’re happy to report at 9 years old, she’s a happy girl who snuggles into her spot on the couch next to me.
We also know some dog lovers aren’t so lucky to have their puppies grow out of that stage. And in the professional pet photography business, I come across a lot of trainers who believe their training protocol is the right one.
In fact, sometimes it seems that anyone who has taught their dog to sit puts up a website and calls themselves a dog trainer. So it thrills me to hear that Allison not only believes in the science of animal behavior and bases her training on that but she is also an advocate for regulating the industry.
It’s vital that we not trust just anyone with our dog’s behavior and, as Allison says, we do need to do our research before selecting a trainer to help our dogs.
And as I’ve learned over the years in my involvement in the dog industry, dog training is as much about training the humans as it is about training the dog.
That can’t be an easy task sometimes.
Next week, oh my gosh, this next episode … I gathered together some of the photographers from One Last Network for another roundtable. If you haven’t listened to Episode 7 yet, that was our first roundtable and we talked about the art of end of life photography.
This time, we’re tackling the subject of helping our clients create memories to comfort and heal in the profoundly painful days after they lose their precious babes.
I love EVERYTHING about this! Our youngest boy is reactive, a result of trauma as just a young puppy (we got him at 4 months old, already emotionally and physically injured). He’s coming HUGE strides but it has definitely made us nervous about some thing – recently we had a photo session and while our older two dogs were running free around us as we took pictures, my little man was on leash the whole time and I was definitely nervous.